Cottman,Crawford and the Jersey guy.
Two Brooklyn born gen X guys and a Jersey millennial shooting the shit. Talking about everything and anything. Ready to hear topic suggestions for future podcasts and feedback on those we have recorded. Follow and Like us on FaceBook & Instagram. Email: CCandNJGuy@Gmail.com
Cottman,Crawford and the Jersey guy.
Dissecting The Last of Us: Game vs. Show
What happens when a beloved video game makes the leap to television? In this deep-dive conversation with guest Justin, we explore the intricate relationship between The Last of Us games and HBO's adaptation, uncovering both the triumphs and growing concerns as the series progresses.
Season 1 earned widespread acclaim for its faithful recreation of the original game, even enhancing certain elements through thoughtful expansion. The Bill and Frank episode transformed a brief game sequence into one of television's most poignant love stories. However, Season 2 has already started diverging significantly from its source material, raising questions about creative direction and narrative integrity.
We dissect the fascinating differences in how the cordyceps infection functions between mediums—from the game's airborne spores and echo-locating Clickers to the show's interconnected fungal networks. Justin provides expert insight into the game's infected types, including Stalkers, Brutes, and the terrifying Rat King that may appear in future episodes. The conversation also explores how subtle changes to character development, particularly with Abby's casting and the altered relationship dynamics between Joel and Ellie, might impact the emotional resonance that made the games so powerful.
Beyond The Last of Us, we examine the broader landscape of game adaptations, from disastrous departures like the Halo series to successful translations like Cyberpunk: Edgerunners. The tension between honoring source material and establishing creative ownership emerges as a central theme in adaptation discourse.
Whether you're a dedicated gamer or newcomer to this post-apocalyptic world, our conversation offers valuable perspective on storytelling across different mediums, the challenges of adaptation, and why certain changes evoke such passionate responses from audiences.
Hosted by: Cottman, Crawford & The Jersey Guy
Contact us: CCandNJGuy@gmail.com
Links & socials: https://linktr.ee/ccandnjguy
Hello everyone, welcome to Cotman Croft and the Jersey Guy podcast. How are you doing, Tom? Good, I'm good. Good, yeah, got a good podcast tonight. Yeah, I invited someone here with us, my stepson Justin, if you lost the last episode.
Speaker 2:You saw him pop in mid-episode. Yeah, he popped in mid-episode.
Speaker 1:He's super nerd. You saw him pop in mid-episode.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he popped in mid-episode.
Speaker 1:He's super nerd, absolutely in our comfort zone, for sure. So I wanted to talk with him about the Last of Us the show, because I know you played the games and everything. By the way, this is Justin.
Speaker 3:I did, yes, hi, hi everyone, Hi world. Yes, I did play both of the games.
Speaker 3:Plenty to take away from season one of the game players right now and the discourse that's happening and the, the conversations that are happening that are kind of like pulling people in different directions with how the show feels. I remember a point in time, from like 2008 to probably 2016, when a bunch of movies were coming out and hollywood's favorite thing at the time was like these teen books about dystopias right. You had like hunger games, right, yeah, twilight, maze, runner, divergent series, and I remember even then as someone who didn't read the books and it really started with harry potter yeah oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, as as someone who just watched the movies, I remember that discourse existing then, with avid book readers of those series being like, oh, it's missing.
Speaker 3:You know x, y and z and like, oh, it could have been so much better. At the time I was, luckily, ignorance is bliss and was like these movies are great. I love them. They're all awesome. They should keep making them. I'm now the book guy.
Speaker 2:Really A little bit.
Speaker 3:I'm now the book guy a little bit. With these game series getting turned into shows. I don't so with the book series that have been turned into movies and shows. There's a lot to take away from a book. You know you have to cut back plenty of stuff. There's probably some stuff you don't really need to there's.
Speaker 3:There's plenty of stuff in there that you probably don't need. That's not necessarily important to the plot that you can get conveyed in a single 30 seconds, right, right. The problem that seems to be happening in Hollywood right now is the writers that are making these series for these games are just they're not relying on the source material. They're not honoring the game.
Speaker 1:No, so you mean the series that's going on right now.
Speaker 2:So I mean Nothing like the.
Speaker 3:So, like the last of us, season one is the last of us one. It's the first game from beginning to end. Okay, it starts essentially the same way. It ends in the exact same spot, give or take. This second season has already wildly deviated from the second game. Really, for the most part, yeah, like we're within the first.
Speaker 2:Like like Mario Brothers movie deviated.
Speaker 3:Not, no, not like insanely different, and I'm not talking about the one.
Speaker 2:I'm talking about the 90s, john Leguizamo yeah.
Speaker 3:No, not like, not so insanely different that it's unrecognizable. It is very recognizable. Spoiler alert joel dies within probably the first hour of the second game okay in the exact same way. Essentially, the scenario is a little bit different. They kind of catch him on the fly instead of it being in that panic situation
Speaker 3:oh, I see because he's doing the right thing, kind of thing correct and that's good and fine. But a lot of that beginning everything that had happened right before that point was super different. That whole first intro hour of the second game and the storytelling that happens there right quite different. The relationship between Dina and Ellie is way more tight-knit.
Speaker 3:It's like very clear that they both like each other and that there's a relationship happening there that is a little bit complicated because of what's-his-name? Gene Dean totally escaping me right now. So it's like a weird sort of love triangle situation. Right off the bat it's clear as day that that's a situation they're pretty much missing from the second season so far, like it was there. They did the kiss at the party situation. Right, love that. Instead of joel just shoving the guy out of the way, he straight up like rocked him. That was a nice little extra oomph on that one.
Speaker 2:Right, he did.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, I mean, there's things like that that are just it's very quickly starting to deviate. They're kind of exaggerating some things. Yeah, pretty far away from what the game was In the first season it was. It felt like a one-to-one for most of it, which was awesome, and people loved it. People who had no idea about the game loved it because it was an incredibly well-written story. So it could have been a one-to-one, no problem. Yeah, yeah, no doubt they did do some extra stuff with season one. That was really cool. Some extra stuff with season one, that was really cool. The whole situation at the very beginning of season one with tess the one who died and joel a little bit of a different scenario.
Speaker 3:His daughter, right, tess? No, no, tess was the, the older woman right when they do the time skip right at the beginning of the show okay the, the woman that was helping him find the fireflies. Right and then she got bit by like the third episode.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's right, I remember that, yes.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and that was all basically one-to-one as well, but that whole first episode was like a little extra. It was nice to see a little bit extra of their relationship and the things that they were doing the episode with oh boy, what's their names? Fred Frank, fred Frank Frank. And the two survivors Okay, the two men that were.
Speaker 1:They were happily gay and sheltered down and they died.
Speaker 3:Already they're gone right, and they're already both dead In the game. That's a super short thing that happens.
Speaker 1:They extended it more, they went into it more Way more.
Speaker 3:That was that whole episode of like their life basically in a single episode was one beautiful, like one of the best episodes of the whole series.
Speaker 2:So you think some stuff is better.
Speaker 3:Sometimes more is more, you know, and it's better.
Speaker 1:So in both instances they're actually giving you more backstory on stuff than yes, yes, absolutely. Then that shows in the game, or?
Speaker 3:the the instance with sam, the deaf child, and his older brother, whose name is also escaping me right now from season one okay in the game. Sam's deaf, sam's just a normal kid, so that was a fun little, you know. Added a little bit of extra to it.
Speaker 1:I wonder why they do that. You think just to give it a little bit more appeal. It just makes it more interesting.
Speaker 3:It makes for more screen time. It's a pretty tight-knit sort of act of the game, the whole Sam act. They expanded on it In. They expanded on it in the game. Sam and his brother are looking for the fireflies. They're not running away from them.
Speaker 3:So looking for yeah and as in, to do damage to them or they were looking to join them because they were just like out and about in the wilds trying to like find their way. So they wanted help. In the show they made it that they had already found them Right by the time Joelel and ellie meet them, but they had run away from them at that point because of cannot remember what the situation was. But and then the fireflies were looking for both of them, right well, the hope she needed to go.
Speaker 3:He had to get it to that one place, yes, in order for them, but he thought they were just going to take their blood or whatever, yep, and instead they were going to have to harvest her brain, I think right, yeah, so basically, the procedure that they were going to attempt to do had no way of guaranteeing her life and was likely to take her life, and that was and that was on a roll of the dice chance that they were going to be able to make a pathogen that would actually be successful in making everybody immune, right? So yeah?
Speaker 1:there was like yeah, I'm not having it yeah, no, there was.
Speaker 3:some experts went into this where they were like, hey, so that wouldn't be a thing. Oh, there was basically like a like a joel apologist guy who was an expert, who was like they wouldn't have to kill her to do that, right? So Joel was actually right for gunning all those people down, exactly yeah.
Speaker 3:And so, like there are things in season one that they did differently but in a fun way that added to the story Right, with a few minor deviations In season two, though it's like Super serious in most of them it's pretty damning. The people don't like the casting for Abby, why? I think she's perfect for her. She is great for it. There is an aspect of Abby Right In the game. She is jacked beyond belief. I will happily pull up a picture for you guys.
Speaker 3:The, the character model for abby is the most yoked woman, right, you could imagine, and it's supposed to be a whole thing for her. She made herself as rough and gritty as possible, right to go and hunt Joel down. There's this whole unseen part between both games where we only get a little bit of it. In the game you do do a scene as Abby when she finds her dad, who was the surgeon, dead. Joel shot her father, who was the doctor who was going to kill Ellie. Right In that scene she's tiny, she's like the character in the series, right, she's quite small and thin. And then you do this crazy time skip where she goes across the country to hunt down Joel and she's jacked out of her mind.
Speaker 1:Right, she's like super it's part of the character.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean. Like at that point that's part of the character's identity. At that point that's part of the character's identity and unfortunately in the series they they picked someone who just doesn't fit that part of the bill at all. And it's hard, because in in the second game this is actually really interesting, I think you'll like this you play only for Joel for like an hour, right? Joel dies, you immediately start playing as Ellie and then after a little bit you start playing as Abby and then the story gets split and you play half of the game as Ellie and half of the game as Abby.
Speaker 2:So they could do that episode to episode or split the episode. So we do half an episode as.
Speaker 3:The killer there, and the reason why I'm saying her character identity is important is in the second game, when you play as ellie, she's a lot more sly. She's a lot more frail. She has to be very smart about how you play with her. Which sort of changes how she interacts with the world as she's trying to go through it and hunt down everyone that was there for joel's death.
Speaker 3:When you're playing as abby, it is like playing as a soldier, like she cleans house through people, but I I don't know how they're gonna do that part, you know there are so many scenes where you play as abby, where she is truly showing like the strength and grit of the absolute maximum capacity of the female body, she's peak physique and I don't see how that character is supposed to or at least that actress is supposed to fit that bill.
Speaker 3:They're going to have to tone it back in some way, shape or form, like I'm not saying that Abby's like throwing cars around at any point but, there's scenes like that and that's just not going to work for that actress at all, unless they hit it from us and she's absolutely yoked coming up in one of these next episodes, which I Because they take off right, they go.
Speaker 1:Where do they head out Back?
Speaker 3:west. They go as far west as possible. I think they have to know that they're coming as spoiler free as possible.
Speaker 2:I think they have to know that as spoiler free as possible.
Speaker 3:I believe abby makes it literally to the west coast, right, and they get as far away as possible. They also making it harder for ellie. They disperse they're not all in the same place everyone that was there for joel's death went in different directions they all.
Speaker 1:That's probably the smartest thing you could have done.
Speaker 3:Yeah and yeah. You'll see as the show goes on. It is a vexing story of the fight for justified revenge versus the fight for keeping your empathy. Yeah, a lot of people when the game came out, and this is the other thing too. There's so much discourse.
Speaker 1:This is great to have you like I'm listening to this shit.
Speaker 3:It's awesome there's so much discourse about this right because now there's discourse about the show deviating from the right. So at the time it's the same with everything, though any, yeah, it's, there's always something it will be what it will be, but at the time when the game came out, there was a bunch of discourse because Joel dies in the first hour. Right.
Speaker 3:We're freaking out about Joel not being in the second game at all. And so when the game came out, you had all of these people that were like giving the game really negative reviews, like a very trending topic in the discourse, that the game was like really bad or sucked or the story, and the people were saying like the writing is horrible. The writing is incredible right.
Speaker 2:They just didn't like the fact that their guy it was exactly right and it's just the, the gaming community when they like.
Speaker 3:When there starts to be a consensus like that gets so reactionary and like gross and inflammatory. Yeah, oh, really, oh, yeah, I mean it's just like you know everything else yeah.
Speaker 2:It's just like everything else out there. It's like when you hear the Star Wars discourse.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, well, anything really it's with Star Trek, star Wars, any comic book DC.
Speaker 3:Yeah, all of them. That's what art is supposed to do in many ways, right.
Speaker 1:It's supposed to be engaging.
Speaker 3:Some people think a little too far, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 2:But that's art.
Speaker 3:That's art You're going to have your extremists.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's art you do have a point.
Speaker 3:It'll always create discourse that way where people feel one way about it and some people feel the other, and it'll always go back to their you know their political leanings and their ideological leanings. Right, yeah, exactly it. Just it sucks when those leanings bring people towards like attacking a masterpiece of a game because they don't like the. What happened in the story?
Speaker 3:right, because he dies so soon yeah, and then the the real killer, without spoiling it for you towards the end, is that struggle of like am I going to go on a ruthless revenge path or am I going to find a stopping point where I have some empathy and try and like, settle shit With yourself mostly, mostly with their self and I? I hope that the series does that aspect of the game justice, because and again without spoilers, it is ruthless. Ellie becomes like borderline psychotic.
Speaker 1:I'm I've already justifiably. It was funny that you say that because I already, as soon as it happened and she saw it happen. And then I, you know, I saw the, the next episode, and I was like, yeah, she was already on a warpath, she's, she, she's trying to make it like she didn't want anybody to know it, but she, you could tell, she like absolutely and and, and.
Speaker 3:You'll see, as long as they stick to the source material, right, god willing they, you'll see, almost everyone around her that actually cares about her is going to be those, those moments where she like gets to lean on the empathy of people being like hey, hey, what if we chilled?
Speaker 2:out.
Speaker 3:You know, like hey, what if we didn't murder everyone that was present? Yeah, and yeah, she just she takes every single step towards, like the darker path that you could imagine. Oh, she's pissed. And again, without spoilers Tommy, no better. Tommy, arguably worse, really, mm-hmm, wow, oh, yeah, there, and I hope they do this one. There is a part of the game where you're playing as Abby, where Tommy decides to also have his justifiable crash out and Abby is taken through. This isn't really necessarily a spoiler. Abby is taken through a morgue of fireflies, or maybe it was wolves, I can't remember one of the factions one of the factions that abby was working with.
Speaker 3:Okay, stacks of bodies, all tomm, all Tommy, on a war path. He, I, they don't cover it. Maybe they'll cover it in the series. They don't cover how he gets to, where he gets, but he goes to a place. It's not a good one. And he finds the people responsible and he kills anybody wearing their symbol.
Speaker 1:Yeah, hey, question symbol. Yeah, hey, question Symbol. Oh wait, but you didn't see the next episode so I can't tell you. But you saw the game, all right. Who are the people with the things in their face?
Speaker 3:Ah, the Scars. Yes, yes, I believe they are called the Scars. Okay, what's the purpose of that? So they're interesting. You have to actually, in the game, you have to dig a little bit to find more about them. Okay, there's going to be a character very soon. Is it like a religious faction of some sort? It is that. It's that they kind of fill that post-apocalyptic role of the. What if there was religious freaks? You know, they're always the one in the dystopian post-apocalyptic, the one in the dystopian post-apocalyptic. There's always the one faction that's like kind of religion-meaning sort of, but it's more about the person these ones are like flat-out religious freaks right, no not flat-out.
Speaker 1:The way I got it not to ruin anything, but the way I felt was it was more like Buddha, in a sense, where they didn't say that the person had power, they were a god, but you were following her practice and that and and sharing with other people and continuing it on, because it was the wisdom of you know. Yes, he was very wise.
Speaker 3:Yes, he was very wise it has that sort of occult leaning deal it did to. It definitely had that yeah, that's right, but they are like it's and they got the same problem that every faction has in the last of us hammer. What's with the hammer? What hammer? Oh well, I'll have to watch to make sure that I know exactly what we're talking about.
Speaker 1:Sorry, I'm ruining it for you.
Speaker 3:I apologize no worries, it's no worries. Yeah, the the scars are an interesting faction. They should be in this season right, a fair amount, because in the game they're predominantly one of the biggest enemies that you're facing, as specifically abby. There should be another character coming up soon with the next episode or two that is scar affiliated. That is also plays a big role in this game slash this season. Hopefully they don't butcher that character. It's a very fun character that they had to do something with abby to make her not instantly hateable. Play the whole first game as joel and then you're gonna make me play the person that killed him and that character.
Speaker 3:That scar character, is pretty much the answer to playing as abby and seeing her good side okay, yes, gotcha yeah there will be a bit of a a journey there where you will see that abby is not all horrible and you get plenty of chances to see that she's also just another person, admittedly kind of like Joel. And there's this beautiful thing with the game too, where Ellie plays like Ellie, abby plays like Joel, joel saved all life. Yeah, it's a rough go. I personally love how it goes. I love the blend of playing the two and I hope that the show also does that blend of seeing what the two go through. Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1:Well, explain to me more about the actual infection and how that works. The cordyceps, okay. So it's not like a mushroom, it is no it exactly is, it exactly is a mushroom it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, kind of they. They do a fun thing in the game fungus of some sort they exist in real life, just not it's it's, it's really just to explain that in the, in the in the very beginning is is probably the the best bit that you'll get out of it for the show's sake. In the game you you can find little bits of lore hidden in places. Right, it is full on a what-if scenario where what if cordyceps, which are able to take over anything organic, were able to reach our temperature and take us over?
Speaker 2:wow I'm freaking crazy yeah, normally die at our temperature.
Speaker 3:They die a little bit under our temperature. They need, like, a pretty cool and wet environment, and we are just a little too hot A little. However, cordyceps have been known to adapt to higher temperatures over extensive periods of time. That's mother nature for you, yeah. So that was sort of the what if that was the basis for making the game Right. Someone was really interested in Cordyceps and said I can make a zombie series out of this.
Speaker 1:That's right Like that. Interesting, yeah, very interesting, because you can see what it does to insects and things of that nature. Yeah, it's crazy, completely infectious.
Speaker 3:There's a couple things that so far have been a little bit missing on the Cordyceps side of things in the series. That was in the game and was really cool in the game, and I hope that they show us it more in the series. In the game the Cordyceps are also airborne, so there are areas in the game where you would not be able to go through without a gas mask, otherwise you would get infected. It's immediately airborne cordyceps right into your lungs. Wow, that would be fucking suck. Yeah, you're super screwed, and it brings up this fun mechanic in the game too, because ellie doesn't need a gas mask, right?
Speaker 2:so when they're walking through those areas, don't they sorry, no, no but don't they communicate through their like roots or something?
Speaker 1:like right, so communicate when they're airborne.
Speaker 2:Yes, how does that work correct?
Speaker 3:correct. Uh, it, uh, yeah, they, uh, they do. They're a little bit in the game. Most of them don't have eyes, so they use echo location.
Speaker 3:Oh, wow, so it's more hearing you for the most part. And also the root thing is more serious thing. Lesson in the game thing not really a thing in the game. It's in this are, yeah, in the game. It's in the, it's in a series. I think in this, sorry, in the series, the roots thing is a is a thing right, game not so much. That's not really like explored as extensively as it is in the series. Gotcha in the game it's all echolocation you have to be super quiet all the time and because they scream a lot.
Speaker 3:That's how they gather each other right, because they have that very specific scream in in the game. They're called clickers because they click to sort of see around them, because most of them don't have eyes. You'll, you could be walking through any given moment of the game and then you start hearing clicking and everyone does the same thing. They just stop moving and they start looking around. For whatever the hell. That was Right. It's a very fun concept the way they do it in the game, and I don't know why they deviated so far from it, but I like what they're doing with the series.
Speaker 3:Okay, this network thing is super cool and should also be a thing in the game. It's more noise dependent and what they haven't really shown yet in the series is that it is. This is a fungus that is taking over sentient people, right, right, and eating away at their brains. They are losing their minds. They have not fully lost their mind. In the game you will often find that people who are infected with cordyceps are, if you catch them off guard, are often in a corner crying or like weeping or in pain okay until they hear something and then they go very primal and like the cordyceps sort of kick, really like kick in and they become truly infected.
Speaker 3:Oh god, that's horrible. Other thing in the game often when you get into melee with a quarter step or even shooting them, they will scream and shout like a normal person would to getting shot. It's not this weird, you know zombie sounds and whatnot it's you're hearing the human side of it's real people getting actually shot because there's still a person under the mushroom right, yeah, yeah so that's like a really fun thing that they they do in the game a lot.
Speaker 3:That's like really eerie and scary yeah, it sounds, it sounds bad yeah, that they're not really exploring as much in the in the show no, huh, that one big one that was in the show the big, the the brute. Yes, the the quarter set brute is a very fun and that is crazy.
Speaker 1:It is in the in the. Was he like the like? They followed him? Was he like the?
Speaker 3:it's weird it's in the game, super, not like that. They're not like like a source for the hive in any way. They're just a really fucked up person that has a lot of cordyceps on it, just a larger host Gotcha, but they're not necessarily like a commander in any way. Right, okay In the game.
Speaker 1:If they had any hierarchy. Yeah, you know what I mean In the game.
Speaker 3:You almost exclusively, I think run into brutes alone. It's like a 1v1 scenario with the brutes. One of the scenarios in which you I think the first time you fight a brute in the first game is in a gymnasium closed off space, and it sucks. It's like really hard really. Oh my god, it tries to truck through this gymnasium. You have a very small space to work with. They took away one of its abilities for some reason. The brutes are supposed to be able to take chunks of the cordyceps off and throw it and it plumes into that.
Speaker 1:And that's an airborne.
Speaker 3:Because they took away the airborne factor. I guess they kind of took away some of the abilities as well. So now it's only the bite factor. It's just the bite. It's just the bite and the like full-blown frenzied madness.
Speaker 1:But there is ones that are a little bit more intelligent in the game, just like in the series right where they were actually hiving together and keeping warm and yeah they were, they were, and then they're planning, planning, hiding, sort of doing right cloak and dagger tactics.
Speaker 3:Those exist in the game there are ones that are smarter. I believe they're called stalkers. Yes, they are called stalkers. Those ones also rough. Go with those guys. They're quieter, are they? I think that? I think they're stealth. Hopefully no one called me on this, right yeah no one called me on this one, please out there. But I believe that the stalkers in-game fundamentally are just people with cordyceps who still have ears Okay, so they're just inherently a little bit better at being quiet and hearing and finding their way around.
Speaker 3:I think also they're predominantly ones that have at least one eye like visible Really yeah, so that they can actually see what. They're predominantly ones that have at least one eye like visible yeah, so that they can actually see what they're doing.
Speaker 1:Okay, so they're a little more intelligent.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they're like a hybrid. There's a couple, there's one should be in season two. I would be amazed if it isn't. That is truly unique and I hope they do not leave it out and I hope that a lot of the budget went into making it, because it is insane Really. Yeah, I believe its name in-game is the Rat King the Rat.
Speaker 1:King yeah, okay, this is gonna be scary, yes, good, oh, yeah, no, it's I'm looking forward to it. It's a bad go hello, how many games were there? There is only two. Oh, there are only there is only two how are they going to be able to make any more story after this?
Speaker 3:do not know, I don't know if they're gonna continue.
Speaker 2:Are the people?
Speaker 3:I think it'd just be the two are the people who wrote the video games involved in this at all. Yes.
Speaker 2:Neil Druckmann, so kind of like Walking Dead. Where what's his name? The creator of Walking Dead, right, yes, Neil Druckmann is.
Speaker 3:He was I can't remember what his title was on the game, but he is also part of the team for the series.
Speaker 2:Okay, so I wonder.
Speaker 3:People are currently ready to Molotov cocktail. Neil drugman, because I don't know why he's. He was part of the game. Not sure why he's deviating so far from something that he helped write. That was really good.
Speaker 2:Freaking hollywood man, it has to be and it's or they have to, you know make it work for a tv series, because sometimes it might not transfer one might not, you know it might. It might be good for people who know the game. I guess yeah to people who don't know the game. So they'd be like they always factor that shit right.
Speaker 3:I feel like. I feel like a guy like neil druckman has like a really hard position too. Yeah, because he has to appeal to the people he made the game for, and he has also appealing to whatever hollywood wants from him and you know right who don't know the game and for people who don't know the game.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's like I. I only knew the game because of you. You've always you've spoken of the game. I remember that, yeah, and then the series came out and you were the one who actually had. I watched it because of you, yeah, and as soon as I was like, oh man, this is fantastic, I love this, is that right down my alley truly one of the one of the best ones that there has ever been.
Speaker 3:But, yeah, hollywood, they just I, I feel like it's gotta be, because I don't think anyone that works on a game that directly wants to deviate, right how?
Speaker 1:can we well look what they do with this, you know, with the, with the superhero movies and yeah, I mean avengers and and dc and yeah, you know, like they just marvel I mean they, they, I'm sure they would like to do it the way they want.
Speaker 1:I mean Avengers and DC and you know, like they just Marvel. I mean they, they, I'm sure they would like to do it the way they want. Meaning the comic book itself would probably be like I don't want to deviate, I want to keep the story as is, or you know, not crazy, but these guys want to change it up.
Speaker 3:My, my initial thought is that the writers that are working on these kinds of things they. My thought is that they want to deviate from the source material, so that it's actually like there's a little bit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay.
Speaker 3:Like that's gotta be part of it, I feel. Cause if you're just making it one-to-one from the source material. You're not really like doing a job necessarily.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:Like you're kind of just copy pasting Pretty much Screen screen writing or game writing into screen play writing. You have a point there, so I feel like it's got to be part of it. They want to, like, put their marker on it somehow.
Speaker 1:Sometimes it doesn't hurt, though I mean certain things. Just, you know they change the stories. It's good, sometimes it. Sometimes they do try to stay as close as possible when they make them.
Speaker 2:I mean you look at, like you know, the Batman series.
Speaker 1:Look how many different ones.
Speaker 2:Different ones, but some of them have been worked really well Like the Dark Knight.
Speaker 1:worked really well. I like the Dark Knight.
Speaker 2:You know playing this iconic.
Speaker 1:Joker. I like the one with. I like the one with which by the way. Keaton.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Oh yeah yeah, yeah, but you know the fan theory and I still think it checks out.
Speaker 1:The.
Speaker 2:Joker, who did the Dark Knight?
Speaker 3:It's for Nolan.
Speaker 2:The Nolanverse Joker is supposed to be probably like a psychotic black ops guy. He knows demolition. He knows psych ops. He knows how to recruit people. He's got this whole plan psych ops, he knows how to recruit people. He's got this whole plan. And my theory, my theory is I go even deeper into that theory- I'm sorry, I don't want to deviate too much.
Speaker 3:I'm sorry, I have a tendency to do this.
Speaker 2:But is that he? It's, it's just a character, it's? It's like he's he's doing the same thing bruce wayne is doing with he when he's, he's in character, but behind the scenes, oh, so that's his like, that's his superhero.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, he's like, he's like a true operator, but that's his like he's not like.
Speaker 2:That's my side behind the scenes. Right like that man okay, yeah, I get it, totally get it, that's a fun theory makes sense, goes out and beats the joker for the theatrics right the plan right.
Speaker 3:That's a fun theory. I like that. That's crazy yeah so anyway um no, no, you're good, you're good. There was, I was gonna say, because of that, the screenwriting situation. Like you have to make it different in some way, or at least maybe that's what's happening yeah make it more appealing, like you said earlier there's ways to do it good, like season one, where they added all of this fun stuff. That was pretty good. It was a deviation, sure, but it was fairly well received one.
Speaker 1:This was a little bit more dark and serious. Yeah, well, what about the shrink? I don't mean to cut you off, but shrink in the book, I mean in the game, not in the game not in the game not in the game.
Speaker 3:Nope, nope, and that was actually. That's probably the other biggest deviation a lot of the time that they spend in jackson before joel dies, right like ellie and joel actually talk like they fully flesh out their feelings. Okay, where she's like hey, I don't fucking believe you. And he's like I did what I needed to for you. And she's like can you just say that you did it? And he goes I did what I needed to for you there's like a whole conversation that just gets skipped. No idea why they did that one.
Speaker 1:That was probably the biggest one okay, um, yeah, killer, okay, and those are one of the things we're talking about.
Speaker 3:That something was added into his story yeah, okay, we, we take time with joel with a shrink, not having a relationship with ellie, when they could have just made their complex, their relationship, more complicated in the game. That's kind of part of the reason that playing ellie feels weird. Their relationship at the very end was very complicated. She was fucking really mad at him and he was just not able to tell the truth like he. He shells it up the whole time until he dies with his lie right. And for ellie to go on a war path like that it's tough because even she knows that it's not really all that justified, you know, and they, they go into it as you progress through the game. She really struggles with that whole part of like man, he, he butted heads really bad at the end and what was?
Speaker 1:what was it again that he was?
Speaker 3:he was actually hiding, like that he, so she doesn't know what happened at the hospital, right, he killed that to this day, she doesn't know what happened at the hospital. He just took her, and when she woke up he said it wasn't gonna work and so I took oh so before they did anything about that, yeah, so that was like the big lie.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:Is that he killed a bunch of people. He doesn't tell anybody, he didn't even tell the shrink, nope yeah, and they just kind of fully dodged it for some reason. Wow, there's so. Do you remember after the party, when he was outside?
Speaker 1:on the porch and she just kind of stares at him and then walks inside right right past him. Yeah, that's where the conversation happens. Oh, really, conversation happens right there. Did he have the guitar in the game too?
Speaker 3:I was like, oh man, they're about to fucking go at each other for so they decided to go the other way with it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they went like a totally different direction with it, where it was just like no, she's just super mad at you. I feel like they did that so that it's not as polarizing for people. If she's just oh, I got you, you know what I mean. Like if she's just oh, I'm so mad at herself as well, because she didn't square everything up with him, whereas in the game it's a lot more gray because it's like she, they, they go at each other, they're mad at each other. She knows something's up, he's refusing to budge and then he dies.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:And she's kind of just left with what do I do next? And it's, and it's a super scale balancing thing. And then she just decides yeah, no, fuck it, I'm going to go kill all these people.
Speaker 1:And that's where it takes us. She has that mindset already. She was like that from the beginning of the first season, even when she was little.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know she didn't give a shit.
Speaker 3:I mean, she's pre -programmed that way a little bit because she was. She was in that firefly academy with those kids and the fireflies were teaching them to like how to survive in a really tough world, so yeah, you're right it's, it's just part of who she.
Speaker 1:She is brought up, as do you think with this series they might split it up, like if they want to make another season out of it. I'm saying like if they do another one, will they be able to take anything from the second, second game still to make the other one?
Speaker 3:I mean there's a lot of content in the second game, so maybe we won't get all the way through it right, maybe we only get, oh, they'll split that.
Speaker 2:They'll split the into two seasons maybe because there's because there's not a third game, there's a lot yeah, a lot to cover.
Speaker 3:Okay, I mean they, they go like across the country, you know she, she chases all what six of them across the country really, to different places too. There's a lot to cover she ain't playing, no no, she, yeah she. I mean travel time. You're talking there's a bunch of white space that isn't covered in the game because it's.
Speaker 3:You know she's going out, I won't spoil anything and then you just pick up at you know a city or a place where she found out that there's fireflies and she's like I'm going to find that person, I'm going to find one of them here because there's fireflies here, right? And it's just that several times she goes across the country.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's was the other younger girl with her as well, but they're both still together.
Speaker 3:Yeah, dina is with her through most of the game, okay, some of the game. There's a turning point where plenty of stuff happens, where Ellie does end up completely alone still chasing people down.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's plenty of fun. Really messed up stuff on its way.
Speaker 1:So maybe they will go and do something. I'm thinking, would they really stop at the second game and that would be it, second season and you're done? Yeah, no, I feel like there's probably more to talk about.
Speaker 3:I feel like they could stop at quite a few points and then call it for another season. I mean, obviously she's going to go on this war path where she starts trying to eliminate them. You could really stop at any one of the people she gets to. There's enough time and space for her to get-. To have more stories, maybe this season she gets one or two of them and then next season To have more stories. Maybe this season she gets one or two of them and then next season she gets the other four.
Speaker 3:Right, I gotcha Something like that. But it's a little up in the air right now because they're starting to deviate quite wildly. And it's a little scary when it's this early on in the season that it's deviating, because then it's like okay, well, if you're making deviations.
Speaker 2:Maybe they're deviating because they want to be able to make another season Possibly, possibly.
Speaker 3:That could be another reason. It's a great theory because you know, when it's that different, that early, that's usually for a reason, and that's because they want to change more and more as it goes on. So, yeah, I think it will end up getting changed pretty wildly.
Speaker 2:That's why I hated when they did original Walking Dead? Yeah, when they did, I was just like they changed it. Oh yeah, yeah, they also just dragged it yeah yeah yeah, now they.
Speaker 1:They branched off another series on it too, didn't they? Oh?
Speaker 3:they've done several now, yeah, yeah, there's like three series now. It's ridiculous, yeah. So that's what I mean, there's a right way to do it, which I would consider season one of the Last of Us, probably one of the better adaptations from a video game Cyberpunk Edgerunners. Right, it's an anime on Netflix single season.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:Incredibly good. Probably my favorite video game adaptation of a game game being Cyberpunk. Absolute wrong direction. The Halo series on Paramount that just came out the last two, three years. That was horrible.
Speaker 1:Really. But I remember you playing that game when you were younger. I mean, you've been playing that for how long now?
Speaker 3:As long as I could remember, as long as I could pick up a control.
Speaker 1:So it got worse. It didn't get better, Like the first Xbox.
Speaker 3:It was bad within the first two episodes. I don't know how it got a second season. It deviated. That was, it is like literally take what I'm complaining about, about the Last of Us, and multiply it by 30. Okay, they went so the wrong way. They went the 1990s super mario brother it was the 1990s.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, exactly that it was like, which was horrible, yeah, it's.
Speaker 3:it's just insane. They and the biggest thing, too, is that the screenwriters came out and made a statement where they said source material, not worried about it, we're going to rely on a couple of the books. That was a statement that they made. Wow, just the wrong direction, yeah.
Speaker 2:Let's deviate from what it came from.
Speaker 1:Right from what it actually is about. That makes no sense. Why would you do that? You know what I mean, yeah. There's a right way to do it, and a wrong way to do it, and now we have exactly what that looks like and, of course, everybody is going to be, you know, having their own view and comment, and some very passionate more than needed obviously sometimes the discourse will be everywhere. It will continue.
Speaker 3:It will continue.
Speaker 1:Anyway, Justin, thank you so much for being with us. I appreciate you doing this with us. This was good. I got a lot of information about the show, tom.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know, I got to pick it back up now. I think you should Right. I do I do, you know? It's just I have a habit where, if I lose too much time, I'm just like I forget about it, I forgot it exists, or or or like I'll just not that I forget to exist because people mention it and I'll go yeah, yeah, last of us.
Speaker 1:I gotta, I gotta gotta back up on that. I never do. There's so many to watch. That's the problem. I'm going to try to. I'm going to try to.
Speaker 2:I'm going to put it because you know what you got time to kill.
Speaker 1:Yeah Right, exactly.
Speaker 3:That's the prime time. That's awesome.
Speaker 1:Well, that said, thanks again. This was a good podcast. Thank you, sir.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:What are we saying? Are we saying our usual shtick? Nah, should we say Something?
Speaker 2:different.
Speaker 1:What's Kenny's thing? Oh, love peace and hair grease. Live long and prosper. Thank you people.
